And you all thought that emulation was bad.

Actually, that is just a rumor. Emulation is illegal no matter how you look at it.

Yea…they’ve always said that if you dump it yourself, it is legal, but honestly, do you think that would hold up in court? :stuck_out_tongue:

Doesn’t this just fall under the other burning laws?
As in that you’re able to burn a copy of a CD, like I said earlier, to keep a backup in case of it breaking or something. Just a copy to keep yourself in case of anything?

Ninten:cool:

I know for a fact that is legal!

Right, but it is different, because in the case of games, the company has on purpose instituted a system to protect their intellectual property. They purposely encrypt the data, use different sized and formatted discs, and do other things, all in the name of keeping their information safe. In this case, it isn’t the same as just a CD, because you showing intent to steal (?) by breaking that encryption/protection.

Like DVDs, for example. They are not legal to backup or copy, mainly because they are encoded with CSS. This shows that the studios want to keep their data safe, and if you break that encoding, you are breaking their intellectual property.

But you live in australia, so the Intellectual Property laws might be different there (read: more lax).

That is why CDs are now adding things to make them unripable. Some CDs have thigns on them to where if you rip the song and burn it, it won’t play. Also, just because you can do it, doesn’t make it legal.

EDIT: Also, if you read the manuals for games, it will say that it is illegal to make a copy of it. Copying a comsole or hand-helded game is like copying a PC game, which is clearly illegal. PC games are easy as hell to copy, much easier than a console game, but it is illegal. Besides, creating a rom isn’t creating a back-up since it is tranfering it to a different media. If you were to try the reasoning you are using (back-ups and stuff) in court, they would tell you to go out and buy another copy. Your case would fail in the courts on so many levels it’s not even funny.

RPGamer has a report on piracy and emulation. Go read it if you want to actually know what is and isn’t legal. (Short answer, pretty much everything is illegal.)

There is no way you can make a cd unrippable. As long as you can hear it you can copy it. All you need is setup a recorder to record the output of your sound card/sound system. Doing that it will always be DRM-free.

Exactly. Then again, my Dad burns DVD’s anyway, so I really shouldn’t be saying anything.

Darn my moral standards. I want to play Live-A-Live and Front Mission again, darnit.

There is a way, what they do is put some code in it that messes up the burn. I read about it awhile ago so I can’t post an article on it, but they do have the technology.

On emulation. Copyright law in the USA is something ridiculous. It originally started as only 28 years which would make quite a few games public property in the next decade. However, it was then extended to life of author + 50 years. Now it is something like 50 years minimum. The only way emulation would be legal is if the author waives the copyright and you won’t see that happen too often. I am not sure how japanese long copyright law lasts.

There is the “who gives a flip” realm though that abandonware sites live in where you have a game made in 1985 that is not sold anywhere and is not planned on being sold anywhere. If the author was adamant he could sue and win, but it isn’t worth the trouble to spend money on keeping something protected if you don’t plan on making money off it anymore. These games might as well be public property and I have yet to see a course case of someone being sued for them. This will naturally change if Nintendo’s database of downloadable old games is truly as big as the amount of roms available. I can’t see that happening.

There is also the “not here” realm where you live in a country where the game never was copyrighted. This would require even more clout and money to stop you than the “who gives a flip” realm. They would have to setup the copyrights through international treaties, political pressure or lots of money. So here you are able to emulate freely and legally. This is why anime download sites like animesuki are so popular in the US. They concentrate on anime that is not licensed yet in North America.

I’d have to see the article Infonick to be 100% positive, but I very highly doubt it. The only way they could stop the way I mentioned is to put the code out with the audio stream which mean it would affect the audio and I can see a lot of people getting pissed with that as it would hurt compatibility with normal speakers by possibly adding whistles or whines.

Don’t confuse people emulation isn’t 100% illegal, just emulating copyrighted material is 100% illegal. It’s different than copying PC software, as the EULA on most (older) PC software says that you’re allowed to make a backup copy of your own software for archival purposes. Console games’ EULA says that you’re not in any way entitled to a backup, whether you make it yourself or download someone else’s. Obviously, this isn’t going to stop everyone.

Personally, I think I’ve given these companies enough money, and proven to them time and again that, if I can buy their product, I probably will. I emulate for a couple of reasons. The first is convenience, as I can play games without having to hook up older systems (as if they’re not already hooked up… >_>), and with frameskip and savestates, all on a modern PSX controller. Another reason is to be able to play games that never came out in the coutry where I live, often translated into a language I can read, no less. I don’t really feel all that guilty about it, either, as I’ve seriously given these companies thousands of dollars, and my playing emulated games is not going to stand in the way of me spending more money on them.

I don’t buy quite as many games as you (hell, I don’t think anyone does) but I have given myself a strict budget when it comes to games. If I didn’t emulate I’d just play what I have over and over again. 8p

I pretty much have the same excuses as you two. The only reason I don’t buy the real stuff is that I can’t afford it, so they aren’t loosing any money with me having a little fun with an emulated GBA.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-bloom112202.asp

This is a very brief, but good look at why copy rights are the way they are in the US.

<A HREF=http://www.videogamecollectors.com/>Oh, some people do… :D</A>

Expanding a bit on what hypharse (sorry for the misspell) said, you guys who live outside of the US don’t have to worry about any of this. The laws regarding copyright are (most likely) very loose, or nonexistent in your home countries. No other nations in the world have such ridiculous time limits and penalties on copyright infringement.

Sure, a company could attempt to try you for ripping an American game (protected under American law) overseas, but it would require them:
A: Finding a court to hear the case
B: Go through the discovery phase of a case in a totally new country
C: Find council to represent them
D: Find a judge stupid enough to convict on such a trivial crime that isn’t even a crime in his country

And there is no way the company would go through THAT much trouble. It isn’t financially desirable. The exception would be Britain, because their copyright laws are almost carbon-copies of America’s.

And yes, emulation is legal. Though, if a company wanted to, it could claim that the architecture of its system, and layout of its hardware is confidential material, and is property of the company. In that case, emulating the hardware would be illegal, because you are recreating their Intellectual Property (the design of the hardware). But then again, to try you on that, they’d have to prove that something on the hardware is new and revolutionary enough to deserve to be protected in such a fierce manner.

Also, the common claim “but i need emulators for development!” is slightly skewed as well. Are you a licensed developer? Then technically, you are not allowed to be creating code for their system. This is how most home-brew SDK projects get shut down.

Also, don’t get me wrong. I’m all for emulation (hell, i even attempted to write my own). I also think that American Digital Copyright is ridiculous.

Yeah emulating non-copyrighted games is legal, but who really does that? Very few. Besides, when talking about emualtion, most people are probably thinking about roms of their favorite old games. No real reason to try and justify your emulation. It is illegal and your reason won’t stand up in court. Only reason to try and justify is to make yourself feel better about it. I emulate games, but I know it’s illegal. I’m just not going to try to get people to feel sorry for em and say that it’s okay.

I’m sure that if someone just copied RPGC and claimed it as their own site that they built, people here would be pretty upset and try to get the person to take it down. The person may have reasons, but it is still a stealing of some sort.

The copyrights aren’t all the crazy or extreme, they are pretty much teh same as any other copyrights. If a site had like PDFs of every page of a book, the author(s) would probably be pretty upset and take the same action that game companies are taking.

Yeah. We’ve done that a few times. One person even completely copied our layout and just changed the table background pictures.

Actually, we allow a few sites to do that. Google’s cache, and the Wayback Machine. One could argue that those two sites are closer to what people try to get out of emulation.

It’s still illegal, though. I’m fully aware that, when I emulate commercial games, it’s illegal. I just don’t think that I’m the guy that the ESA should be focusing on, if they’re trying to crack down on piracy.